Listeroid Generator Project
Engine Received 2/27/06
Site and Genset Under Construction
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A Listeroid is a slow speed (650 rpm) 1 or 2, vertical cylinders, water cooled, diesel engine. Mine, a 1 cylinder, 6 hp. weighs around 700 lbs. Today they are made in India by a variety of manufacturers. Quality can be a problem. Buy from a reputable dealer and quality goes way up as does service after the sale. Some engines have many thousands of hours on them with little work done to them. Others have had major failures early in life. Some of these were even gone over by their owners, but to what extent I don't know. If you know me you already know that I will strip mine down to the last nut and bolt. I did my research and bought from a reputable and experienced dealer. This engine is clean and most everything appears in order. Original Listers were made for decades in England until about 1987. The stories of these engines running 50,000 hours before a rebuild are numerous. Originals were much better built and today are hard to come by. Others have written extensively on Listers and Listeroids. I will not go into further detail here. George at http://www.utterpower.com/ has compiled the most information I am aware of. He tells it like it is. This is not the type of project most people can handle. Open flywheel engines are dangerous and should never be run. Fools and those who take no responsibility for their own actions should close this page and buy a Honda. I've been burning as much wood as possible for many years. Even if I have to break my back to do it my $ goes into the hands of my friends and neighbors, not overseas or to corporations who don't care about any thing but profits. I've had a noisy, 3600 rpm, backup gas generator for years but began thinking about and researching economical, electrical power generation a long time before getting the Listeroid. I have no plans to go "off grid" but there is no doubt in my mind that my energy $ can be spent more wisely. This may only put the future in my own hands a little bit, but every bit counts. I started this project for several reasons.
I can take no credit for the methods I used to assemble this project. Almost nothing here is my own idea. I must thank those who have willingly given their own ideas for myself and others to use. My primary source was George's website http://www.utterpower.com/ and the CD available there. I got my engine from an associate of his. They have them built to their specs. |
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There is a study being done by some students at Columbia University concerning the use of straight vegetable oil as fuel in a Listeroid engine. It could have reaching implications to impoverished communities in the third world. It could also help bolster support in the U.S. for renewable, clean power. http://www.me.columbia.edu/me3410/spring06/group01/index.html |
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There is a new book on the history of Lister engines. I'll be getting a copy soon. http://www.stationaryenginebooks.co.uk/listercs.htm |
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What follows is only the big stuff. There were dozens more checks and measurements than listed here. Most everything was as it should be. I can be a little heavy handed with my tools at times but I broke more on this project than I did all of last year. Just tonight I broke my 1/2" breaker bar on a fitting on a 90 year old radiator I'll be using for cooling. At least I got 2 others out and can use the damn thing. |
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2-27-06 |
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I had to drive to the freight company in Albany to pick it up. It was a big load for my trailer but there were no problems. |
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No damage anywhere |
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Its big. Its green. |
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It took 1.5 hrs to uncrate it. |
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2-28-06 |
I resisted the urge to run it and decided to take it apart right away |
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There is a large door on the back where you can access everything. Counterweights are on the flywheel. The gears on the left drive the cam and you can see the tappets in the background. The oil in the sump was thick and black but there was no grit and it was painted very well. The casings are sand cast and some are not cleaned well enough to remove all the sand. Yikes! Mine had very little sand under the paint in a couple crevices which I found with a screwdriver. Other people with other brands have found MUCH more. |
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The valve gear and head came off in minutes. |
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No scratches, decent crosshatch. Can't really see it in this pic. |
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March 06 |
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Upper con ron shell bearing. When they put it on they trapped a piece of crud in there and damaged the bearing when they tested the engine. Luckily the bearings are much softer than the crank journal which only had minor damage. |
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Better pic of gear train. No timing marks. No, thats not a bronze or brass idler, it must be the flash. |
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Minor journal damage. It polished out nicely. |
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Cylinder off. Injector pump on the right The pictures do not convey how beefy everything is. Its hard to believe its only 6 hp. |
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Nice and clean, honed, no scratches. I will give it a light hone anyway. |
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Wrist pin bearing, brass, just fine. |
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I polished the heck out of the con rod bearings before I put things back together. This may have caused some problems on my test run. Bearings need a film of oil between the them and their shaft and a perfectly smooth finish isn't good for that. I decided to reuse all stock bearings for my test run in case there was any crud I didn't get out in my cleaning. I would replace them after that. |
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Camshaft. The lobes and gear are held on with taper pins. They also use one to secure it in the housing. I tried for several hours to remove it without success. I had all the correct tools accept for a bottom drill which has a flat tip. I cut the taper pin off and used a collar for my test run. I really should remove the pin and replace it before I put the engine into hard use. The brown oblong things are the flywheel weights. There was more lateral play in the cam than I liked. When It was all the way to one side the injector pump roller tappet was only about 1/2 way on its cam lobe (the lobe on the right) So I put in the thrust washer on the left. It centers the roller tappet on its lobe, gives about .010 lateral play and increases the offset of the intake and exhaust lobes to their tappets which promotes better rotation. |
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ST Generator Head |
St heads are made in China. This is a 5kw unit and it weighs over 200 lbs. The bearings are huge. Another example of built to last. |
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Housing with brushes. 2 slip rings and 2 brushes per ring. |
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Oops, I got a little heavy handed on end cap removal. Epoxy is holding so far. I replaced the bearing with an SKF sealed one. |
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Stator. Before I cleaned it up with electrical motor cleaner and put on a coat of electrical urethane. |
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Other end cap. I replaced the bearing with an SKF sealed one. |
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Rotor. Before I cleaned it up with electrical motor cleaner and put on a coat of electrical urethane. I'll bet it weighs 60 lbs or more. |
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20 hr. run in |
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The run went well. I changed the oil at around 6 hours. It was black but no grit, just a few paint flakes, I kept an average load of 1500 watts on it. There is a magnetic thermometer stuck to the head. It works pretty well. The governor has trouble maintaining a constant RPM with a changing load. A common problem. I need to work on the belt tensioning also. 6" I beam frame to sit on. I'm clamping the gen head to the I beam with 1" planks of oak. Its what I had around. My tools and skills are more suited to woodwork than metal. |
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Oil filter detail. The pump is on the left (out of sight) and the hose on the right goes over to the left cam bushing which supposedly can run a little dry. Its a bypass filter with a roll of toilet paper for a filter. Someone on ebay must have found a bunch in an attic somewhere because the documentation and packaging showed signs of age. I drilled a small hole in the plug to keep the coolant a little below 212. When it boiled the steam hammer effect threatened my Mickey Mouse coolant system. |
| 20 hr. teardown | |
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The shiny area is called wiping. An experienced Guy 8/18/06 addition: My timing appears to have been 3-4° to far advanced during the test run which may have contributed to the wiping. The engine runs smoother now that its rectified. |
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Less wiping on this one. |
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Some carbon build up. I didn't really put much of a load on it though. |
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I don't know if its normal for the intake air to cause that ring. I'm not to concerned about it. |
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The camera flash really enhances any imperfections. Looks good to me |
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The camera flash really enhances any imperfections. I'll do another light hone before I put it together |
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The camera flash really enhances any imperfections. I'll polish it up to 600 grit this time. |
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It appears my exhaust pushrod, the rocker screw or both were not hardened. The grease in the cup is on the bottom of the pic and shows signs of dissolved metal. I can harden them by getting them real hot and quenching. Thanks Hotater. |
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I used the wedge method to remove the gib key and failed. The head broke off. This method failed as well and I had to drill it. My guides were set up pretty well and I didn't touch the crank. The flywheel has a small groove from the drill and can be reused. I borrowed a puller for the other side and it came right out. I won't pull them again without a proper puller. I put a LOT of time into this. |
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Crank out, bearings off. The outer bearing races shows minor scratches from the run in India and possibly my own run. This damage cannot be felt with a fingernail or knife tip and alone is not cause to replace them. I'm this far in so they will be replaced with Timkins. I'm not aware of any TRB failures and know there are many engines with thousands of hours on the stock bearings. |
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Like I said, "to the last nut and bolt" |
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New con rod bearings |
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Old and new left cam bushings. |
on the web thought I might blow the bottom end in another 20 hours.
When I put it together I used plastigauge in several places which showed
an in spec .002 clearance. Wiping is caused by a breakdown of the oil
film between the bearing and journal. As I said above I may have polished
the bearings too well which led to this. I also went all the way to
crocus cloth on the journal. I won't polish the new bearings at all
and will only go to 600 grit on the journal next time.
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6/12/06 |
I started my second reassembly tonight. I cleaned the case really well and started. Since I'm replacing all the bearings and bushings this time I need to be really careful and should expect additional issues. I decided to drive in the left cam bushing and hit my first issue. The old bushing has an OD of 1.25" and the new one is 1.254". The hole on the outside of the case is 1.245" and 1.256" on the inside. Hence the bushing is a little to loose on the inside and way to tight on the outside. The tools and/or operator who bored the case were a little off. There is a small step about 3/4" in from the outside I could feel with my fingers. I sanded the case for a while and made .001 or 002 progress. Its not the correct way to do it but its the best answer I could think of without a lathe. I'll do some more when I get the time. |
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6/13/06
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I did some more sanding today and the bushing went right in. Its real snug, not loose at all, I was careful with the sanding. The right side also went in with no issues, groove down. The upper con rod bushing is a real tight fit. The rod is in the oven now at 375º The original bushing has the same OD as the new one and was a pain to remove. The oven didn't work. The bushing gets hot so fast I didn't have time to drive it in. I did some sanding on the outside of the bushing and it went in but not easily. |
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6/14/06
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I installed the cam tonight. Even when oiled up its very snug and and extra snug through about 30º of rotation. It doesn't bind on either bushing when its only in one of them. The fit that way is good. The original bushings were a looser fit than the new ones which could have been hiding a manufacturing defect or crooked bushing. This leaves 3 possibilities I can think of.
I was careful putting in the bushings. No crud in housing. The original, right side bushing had more wear than I think was warranted for 20-30 hrs. I attributed that to Indian crud. The binding decreases when I loosen the cam housing bolts. I'm going with #2 and I don't think there is much I can do about it other than let it wear in, check it often and hope for the best. |
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6/15/06 am
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After sleeping on it I've decided to do some more investigation on the cam issue. The first thing I'll do is remove the studs from the housing and check rotation for smoothness and wobble. Oh Shit! There is a 4th possibility which now appears likely. Bent camshaft. While spinning it from the left side there is a noticeable (by eye) wobble on the right. Did the loose bushings hide a bad cam that came from the factory? I never dropped it but I banged on it pretty hard trying to remove a taper pin. It had the housing for support. It went on easy and spun easily with the original bushings after my taper pin issue. Do I make some "adjustments", buy a new one, or take it to a machine shop. I'll need to find out where and how its bent first. Good thing I slept on it. Letting it "wear in" this way would have been BAD. If the cam wore down the bushing as much as the visible wobble the cam would probobly slam around, wear out the gears on the cam and idler and all hell would break loose. I heard just recently the brain uses sleep to "sort out" the previous days input and puts things in better perspective. |
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6/15/06 pm
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I built a jig to support each end of the cam so I could put my dial indicator on it. It was out .007" right in the middle and the error decreased towards the ends. It was also directly in line with the taper pins. Exactly like the installer used a BIG hammer on the taper pins and not enough support near the hammer blows. There is no way I can see that I did that much damage trying to remove a taper pin that was .5" from the end of the cam with the housing for support. I cannot completely rule out the possibility that I caused it but it doesn't seem likely. Using the best method available to me. (Placing it between 2 I-beams and putting pressure on the center of the cam) I got the bend down to around .001" It went in much better and is less tight but is still quite snug. This time its equally snug through all 360º of rotation. |
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6/16/06
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After looking at it again tonight other things besides the cam could be adding to the problem. The new bushing(s) may have been machined improperly, the holes in the case and housing may not be machined correct. Or I could be missing something else completely. One point to note: (The housing is in place with no studs) As I spin the cam from the left, the housing on the right "migrates" to the point of least resistance. At this point the housing is crooked by 1/16" or so. It does this with both housing bushings. The good news is the wobble is gone. I guess my cam "adjustment" worked. This could mean the case or housing hole was not bored properly. Since it happens with both right bushings the new one is probobly machined correctly. |
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6/17/06
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I put the original left cam bushing in and everything was as it should be. No binding what so ever. This was with the new bushing on the right. I won't know for sure if the new one is bad till I get a new one but it sure seems that way. What a pain in the ass this has been. At least I was able to pretty much correct the problem with the cam. |
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Later on 6/17/06
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I was wrong again. It appears the original bushing was intentionally bored at an angle to compensate for a problem elsewhere. There's nothing wrong with the original so I'll use it. Bushing Thanks G.B. |
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8/16/06
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I am not a Mechanic or Machinist but do know my way around an engine. The cam problem described above is probobly accurate but my inexperience with these engines and lack of some expensive tools could have led to some misdiagnosis on my part. In fact if I never touched the cam I may have been better off. I can't help it, I just have to take things apart. In general much of this rebuild wasn't needed. I got a good clean engine which would probobly run a long time with minimal tinkering. |
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6-24-06
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I got the tappet faces turned flat the other day. Finished them up with 600 grit. |
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I put the con rod on the crank today on the bench. Plastigauge shows .002-.003 clearance which is in spec. I put Prussian Blue on it to see what happens. I have no clue what its telling me. I do know I've never used the stuff before and the con rod rotates very smoothly. |
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I was thinking about mounting the generator to the 3x14 planks you see hear. BAD idea. |
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The 4x4s underneath were rotted. It would have lasted about 10 minutes. |
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RA Lister and friends recommend concrete and that's what I'll do. If I fill in most of that hole I'll have close to a ton of concrete. |
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6/27/06
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The Timken TRBs finally showed up today. I got them in last night and installed the crank. The original assemblers used 2 gaskets on one side and 3 on the other. It was correct. They did it right. I tried it with 2 and 2 and it was tight. With 5 the TRBs are snug but not tight. I can really get moving now. I have pretty much everything in place and ready to go. I may have to wait a few weeks for the concrete base to cure before I run the engine on it. It's not even poured yet. |
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7/4/06
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The engine is completely together and mounted on the frame. I'm going to set it up in the garage with the radiator for a test run. The concrete is going to show up today and there's no way I'll be able to wait for it to cure without running it. There was some carbon buildup on the exhaust valve causing a slow compression leak. The cause is unknown, perhaps to light a load on 1st run in. A quick lap fixed it. A pretty good volume compression estimate came to somewhere between 17.5:1 and 18.5:1 |
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7/5/06
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It's a very busy picture but here is the engine on 2nd run in. |
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Everything went well. I pulled around 2500 watts for 5-6 hours. Vibration is down since static balance. 330 grams per flywheel almost opposite flywheel counterweights. It was about 80º outside and the radiator was slightly overloaded. I had to put the fan on it to keep the water from boiling. The rad is tilted to promote thermosiphon which is probably unnecessary as the hot water rises well in this setup. The governor hunts a bit during load changes but comes back to a pretty steady voltage. The carbon buildup seems to be gone based on my initial inspection of the plug and IDI chamber. The main bearings look good, no wiping so far. |
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Foundation The 18" bolts have 8"x2" metal anchors to keep them from pulling out. I'll use the wood frame as a template for drilling the engine frame. |
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Filled. I ordered 33, 80lb. bags of concrete and got 34. I used 32.5 bags exactly. |
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Proof |
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I like it. Grout for a smooth and level surface for the frame is next. |
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7/8/06 |
The holes in the wood frame should line up with the bolts in the cement. I've since learned this isn't the correct way to do it. You put some softwood 4x4 or maybe 2x2 posts in the hole before you pour the concrete. Remove the posts, put in the anchor bolts, set the frame up and then pour the grout. My way worked but if I was off a bit on drilling the frame it would have been a real pain. |
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The placement makes the expansion tank a little hard to get to. I could lower the radiator 6" but thats a pain. |
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I built a frame and poured the grout about 60 hours ago. I used some stuff called Crystex. Its expandable and made for this type of application. I just got done putting the engine on the frame and it wasn't as bad as I thought. Now I have to wait at least 2 weeks to run it. The grout reaches almost full strength in 28 days. I'm keeping it wet too. I'll probably lower the radiator shelf some. Too bad, I nailed and screwed the crap out of it. |
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Close up. None of the bolts will be tightened till the grout cures. One corner of the engine looks like it will need a shim and 1/32", which I tried, looks to be about double the thickness I need. |
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I havn't put to much up here in a while but I have been
working. The engine room is complete. Testing of the engine and sub
components is going well. It's wired to the house. 100 hrs. since rebuild.
150 or so hrs. total. The only thing missing are some heaters for the
WVO at the IP, injector and possibly filter. Here's what I got.
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No explanation required. |
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Pic shot from outside. I'll need the big fan for temps anywhere above 50°F. Under the foam on the right is boxer fan which works well from 30°-50°F. I'll find out soon enough what happens when its under 30°F. I'll probobly have to do something additional in the summer for cooling. I'll be getting a wood stove fluid to fluid heat exchanger sooner or later for cogen experiments and may have to put a cooling tank on the roof in the summer. It gets really hot in there. |
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Alternate fuel, fuel tank and filtering system. Prefiltered WVO (terrycloth towel) goes in the ammo can on top. It gravity flows through the TP filter into the main tank. Its slow but once setup I can walk away and not monitor anything. Heat lamp (125 watt) improves flow Note the magnet on the bottom of the filter. Ammocan 6-7 gal. Plastic tank 15 gal, 12 gal. usable. Also the sub panel that feeds the house. One breaker for engine room loads and one for the house. |
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I know this is not the optimum setup for thermosiphon but it works OK. I tried for 3 days to get a top fitting off but they were stuck good. Kriol, air tools, broken 1/2" breaker bar, cursing, etc. I thought about turning it completely sideways but any bubbles would then get trapped in the upper elbow ending the thermosiphon. At a 2kw load and 70°F in the engine room I begin to need that fan under it. Its not big enough for higher engine loads and higher ambient temps without more fans. |
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3 way valve setup for the 2 fuel tanks. |
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Engine oil TP filter setup. That valve on the lower left with the blue handle directs the oil to the TRBs (open) or oil filter (closed) I don't send any oil to the filter till it gets to 90° in the sump. I know there are valves which are better at metering the flow but this one was on the shelf, its $3.99 and I'm tired of getting nickel and dimed. The problem with this valve is that the difference between 1 oz. per minute flow through the filter (good) and blowing the seal on the filter with to much pressure (bad) was about 1° of handle throw. I solved this by drilling a small hole through the ball in the valve so that when the valve is completely closed there is still some flow to the TRBs. I get 1-1.5 oz. per minute flow through the filter this way which filters all the oil once every 2-2.5 hrs. The black hose is rated for up to 300°F intermittant and 400 PSI. I put a small double flare on the oil lines where I cut them to act as a barb. I DON'T want any leaks or fitting failures. There is a magnet stuck to the bottom of the TP filter. |
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Oil filter return goes to a fitting I put in the left cam bushing oiling plug. Coolant drain in backround. |
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No explanation required. |
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The belt tracks well with no funny noises from it or the bearings. |
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No explanation required. Very little vibration. Guy wire on other side which can't be seen here. |
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I bought the first can from Midas and looked for the cheapest thing that would fit. It doesn't muffle much sound so I put on the second one. The exaust note is real quiet now. The exaust is around 8' long and the Midas muffler may act as a bit of an expansion chamber to absorb the large exaust pulses. It was easier to leave it there than to remove it anyway. Very little vibration. |
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I used 2 45s rather than a 90° to help flow. It may not be needed for flow but unknown to me at the time it was needed for the muffler to clear the air cleaner. I do get lucky once in a while ;) |
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Quick reference for temp. 160-170° indicated is 205-210° actual when read just above the the head plug. There must be a water jacket behind the thermometor as it reads lower there. Glow plug too. I screwed up on the glow plug mounting by leaving the tip sticking out to far into the IDI chamber and right in the path of the injector spray. Plug I was running some pretty thick heating oil through it and didn't have the fuel heated which I'm sure contributed to the deposits. I fixed it by buying a 2nd glow plug and cutting the first one off flush with the head plug where it stuck out into thr IDI chamber. I'll have to swap glow plugs for cold start and then swap back after a few minutes. |
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Cheesy gov mod. It works though. I stretched left side of the spring by accident but I think it works better. The only minor problem now is to much slop in the sliding clevis which seems to cause a one time occilation of 2 or 3 hz. every once in a while. It could be my loads changing too. All in all I think I'll leave it like it is. 60.7 hz no load, 59 hz @ 20 amps. |
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I put an oiling hole in the cap for the pre start ritual and sealed it with red silicone. |
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This shed was always there and used for many things before this. The exaust above the LP tanks is for a heater in the garage. |
| 11/13/06 | Stay tuned for WVO experiments. The heaters will be here soon. I have at least 100 gal. of the stuff and can't wait to begin burning it. |
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1' long, high temp, 50 watt heat rope. The rope gets 300-400°F Its diffucult to get an accurate reading where the housing enters the block but the housing on top shoots at 210°F with the power on and around 160°F with it off. Others heat the line prior to the injector. It seems to me heating it as close to the block as possible will reduce heat losses. |
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11/15/06
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There has been some talk about endplay on the idler causing a knock. It might be true. I had about .055" I removed the shaft, chucked it up in the drill press and put a file to the shoulder. I didn't measure it after refitting but it should be down to .015-.020" The knock, which was only noticible under a good load sure seems reduced. Its hard to tell for sure with all the valve train clatter |
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11/18/06
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WVO Testing I just got through a full day of testing the engine on WVO and to a lesser extent the engine mods and engine room equipment. It was about the 1st time I felt confident enough not to monitor things every 20 minutes. Everything went very well. I wanted to let the engine get good and hot before switching so it ran for an hour on diesel. It smoked a little on diesel but decreased to nothing after an hour at a 17-20 amp load. A little means I had to put a dark background behind the end of the pipe to see anything. On switching to WVO the engine note didn't change a bit. No smoke whatsoever. Even if I climbed on the roof and looked into the pipe I could see nothing. It appears very much my heat rope hit my mark perfect on the 1st try. I was able to shoot some bare metal low on the injector housing and it stayed at 220-245°F all day long. There is another loop of the heat tape below that so the WVO probably enters the head between 250-270°F, maybe a little higher, very good, based on the latest general consensus. I had a 17-20 amp load all day, about 11hrs on WVO. The engine sounded only slightly different than no load, just loafing along. Fuel consumption unknown. I'll pull the head plug to check for carbon, check oil level and a few more things in the morning. My gravity WVO filter setup filters slowly but faster than the engine burns it. What more could I ask for? It may even be more thorough this way. The 2 small fans kept it about 90°F in there till ambient hit 50°F I then turned them off and put the big fan on throttled to about 1/2 flow. Coolant enters the rad at about 195°F and leaves between 135-155°F depending on load and ventilation. My 3 year old, but good quality 900 watt Oneac UPS runs on ST power. I'm suprised. My newer, 1300 watt Oneac also runs. Now that REALLY suprises me. One of my clients bought a good "computer quality" generator for their computer system and their UPS, same as my 1300, wouldn't run till they put a 40% load on the genhead. I'm really suprised. This means I can provide clean power to critical loads without worrying about dips and surges due to varying loads. Speaking of dips I've noticed my fridge has a large compressor startup load. I can see the voltage go down on the Killawatt and hear the lister absorb it for a few seconds. I'd like to replace the fridge, its old, but as reliable as can be. I'll have to put the Killawatt on it for a few days to see how much of a hog it is. Good and bad....When I'm not using any loads in the house I'm only drawing 3-6 amps.(good) In order to get a decent load on the engine I brought in one of those 600/900/1500 watt, oil filled space heaters.(bad, you should see my wood pile) When the computer and TV are on I turn it down to 900 watts. In the summer I'll use the extra amps for AC. Its big money for batteries, inverters and associated stuff to store excess power. Besides, I have the grid, its cheaper anyway (If money is all your counting) you can't put a price on independence, a sense of satisfaction, security, etc. Todays update, if you didn't already guess it, was written on Listeroid/WVO power. |
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11/19/06
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The plug was pretty clean before yesterdays 11 hrs on WVO |
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The injector tip was dirty before yesterday but NOT this bad. The spray appeared OK though. I cleaned it off real good today. Does a light coating of carbon make it attract more carbon? |
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The back of the IDI chamber. Its a little cleaner than it was before yesterdays run. The light brown areas had a light coating of black. I won't pull the head, unless I have to till I get a lot more hours on WVO. |
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12/05/06 50 watt heater on IP. Same type as on injector housing. It gets the housing to about 140°F. Gotta help some. |
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Heat Exchanger 12/17/06 Two closeups of the heat exchanger I got on ebay. I'm going to run the primary coolant through the shell. It should be cleaner and hopeflly the fins won't clog up. |
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I'll run the water through these tubes. If I have to clean it it will be much easier. |
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Thermosiphon works but the pump increases efficiency a lot. |
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There is 20 gallons in the tank. After the radiator is hot I turn on the pump and in 90 minutes the water in the tank is 140°F or so. I'd have to conclude at this point this is useful heat. It may not be worth my while to bring it all the way to the house but I'll find a use for it. Secondly, and just as important, is that I am removing excess heat from the engine room where I have way to much for the temps I've seen so far. However, the real winter hasn't hit yet. |
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4/12/07
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I've been busy but not updating here. We'll see when I get to it. |
| The old radiator was only barely big enough and needed fans with any load above 1500 watts. This one should never overheat. I went from 4.5 to 8 gallons of coolant. | |
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6/30/07
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I'm very impressed with the amount of hot water I can get off the coolant so I'm going to try getting some off the exhaust as well. This heat exchanger is an ITT stainless steel unit I got on ebay for less than 10% list price. It should work well. Thats a 1' ruler in the pics. |
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The exhaust will go in the top and out the bottom to give the condensate somewhere to go. It should recover about 10,000 BTUs which will eventually be brought into the house. |
| 7/22/07 | Exhaust heat exchanger installed. I now make a lot of hot water at a 2 kw load. More testing and fine tuning needs to be done to find out exactly how much. The next job is to get this hot water into the house. Hopefully before winter. |
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Needs more insulation on top and bottom. |
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Fiberglass exhaust wrap. The exhaust flange is 1.5" NPT. From there I go to 2" NPT. The flex pipe is 2.25" ID. The exhaust gasses will now flow better and hopefuly the engine will be a bit happier. |
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More wrap. 3 layers, I had extra. |
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New *muffler* Its filled with old, broken up cinder blocks. Works well except for a bit of a base drum, low frequency boom, but it sounds cool. |
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10/4/07 |
I bought a somewhat clapped out original 6/1 a couple monthes ago and will be rebuilding it as time allows. I did put the SOM flywheels on my Indian engine and it made it much smoother. The diameter of the SOM flywheels is almost 25" so the engine now runs about 614 RPM and therefor puts out a bit less power. Thats fine as I only need all of it once in a while. |
| I have all the materials to bring the hot water into the house. Pex, fittings, insulation, pump, etc. Phase one will be to get it to a large cast iron radiator in the living room. Phase two will be to continue the run to the furnace where I'll be able to heat domestic hot water. I'll have the valves set up so I can send the heat to each load individually or both. | |
| 11/30/07 |
Cogen phase 1 pretty much complete. Aside from some cleaning up all the pex is run and insulated to a cast iron radiator in the living room. It took a couple hours but I managed to get the radiator up to 150°F the other day. 27°F outdoor ambient, 2100 watt load on the engine. Bottom line, IT WORKS. I still need to do some temp testing to check the losses in the pex runs and see what happens when it really gets cold outside. If I remember correctly I paid $2.10 per foot for the pex and insulation. 150' or so this far and phase 2 will be another 50' or so. Not bad when you consider the $ for pre-packaged stuff. Fittings were around $125.00 Phase 2 will be to continue the hot water loop to the basement hot water furnace to heat domestic hot water and possibly put through the existing baseboard heaters. |
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Engine coolant heat-ex. The cast iron rad is to keep the engine room warm and give me a buffer if something in the secondary loop fails. |
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Close up of engine coolant heat-ex |
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Exhaust heat-ex |
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Accessory hookup in garage. Thats a heater core from a full size van. It should put a lot of heat into the garage in winter and make a good heat dump in summer if I point it out the window. |
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Living room rad |
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Pex and insulation |
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Crappy hand drawn plumbing diagram 1. |
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Crappy hand drawn plumbing diagram 2. |
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Additional insulation. Bubble wrap and blue foam from Lowes |
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30 plate flat plate heat-ex and Taco pump for domestic hot water. |
| 5/1/08 | I put about 400 hrs on the setup this winter and am quite happy with the results.With a 2000-2300 watt load on the engine I can keep the living room radiator at 140-155°F and have enough domestic hot water for small loads. If I have more than one load of laundry I must direct all the engine heat to domestic hot water and wait 30-60 minutes between loads. I can get a quick shower out of it as well. The heat-ex in the furnace has probably never been cleaned in 30+ years and I might gain a lot by cleaning it. |
More to come
